2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

[danwadas55]

Hi All. New to the site and thanks for the reading. I too had the same issues that many have described. I was kicked out because of having "two servers open" even though I was only logged in on one PC. Then I received an error message twice clicking through the application and submitting. I eventually got a submission at 10:11 am. Nevertheless, I agree with most of what has been said. It's likely not GNP staff's fault in any way that they have to use Pay.gov, but at the same time if the system is supposed to be truly "first-come first serve" this obviously is not the solution since we all were ready prior to the opening clicking away, yet some got through in less that 2 minutes and others 10+. I had been in contact with the same Teagan earlier this week with some other questions regarding the application process so I too sent her a description of my experience to forward to the higher-ups. Hopefully everything works out. I was originally confused as to where to indicate on the application that I can basically take a trip anywhere from July 22nd to Sept 14th (with a few select dates that I could not). I spoke to Brian at the permitting ranger's office and he clarified that I could write down all of the date ranges I was available in the comments section of the application and let the staff know that I was available for any of the date ranges listed in case anyone else was confused on that...

[tibber]

I sent an email to pay.gov per their link on the site describing the issues I had and surprisingly got a quick response. I asked that they bump up my time slot but I don't think that's going to happen. Nonetheless, I'm surprised the deep dark hole responded :

Good Afternoon,

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. Due to the high volume of people accessing our site, our site slowed down and was experiencing some technical issues. We have notified our technical support team and are further investigating this. Glacier National Park is aware that this issue took place and you should not lose out on your slot due to these technical difficulties.

[Syrio]

Just a tip for any who ends up not getting their route or a revised version, sites do often open up earlier than the indicated date. As long as you're more than 7 days out you can submit a revised itinerary once the site opens. Obviously its dependent on snow level and all that but I was able to add Stoney Indian to my July itinerary before flying out because it was opened early (date on the NPS site is 8-1) and I asked them to make it available online. It does cost another $40, but if you're like me and flying out the peace of mind is might be worth it.

[danwadas55]

I sent an email to pay.gov per their link on the site describing the issues I had and surprisingly got a quick response. I asked that they bump up my time slot but I don't think that's going to happen. Nonetheless, I'm surprised the deep dark hole responded :

Good Afternoon,

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. Due to the high volume of people accessing our site, our site slowed down and was experiencing some technical issues. We have notified our technical support team and are further investigating this. Glacier National Park is aware that this issue took place and you should not lose out on your slot due to these technical difficulties.

I got the same exact response from the deep dark hole...glad they’re think of us.

[BombDiggityNate]

PS BombDiggity...it all depends on what route (how popular) you applied for and how wide a window of dates you were willing to accept. The wider the window, the better the chances....

Thanks for the response. First choice was the North Circle so I don't feel great about my chances. But I did extend my available window three days outside of my preferred dates, so maybe I'll get lucky. Gonna be a long few weeks...

[Sue Z]

That official response is baloney. Of course we lost our "slot." I got kicked off twice while trying to pay, and had to start from the beginning each time. My time stamp did not reflect my first try, it reflected my third and final attempt (10:09 Eastern).

Lottery, please!!!

[nt_bush]

I hit submit about two seconds after 10. It told me page was unavailable. Went thru the whole process about three time after that. At least his point it was 10:20 so I gave up. Little fustrating but I’ll shoot for a walk up. I’ll be there 7 days and only looking for a two night out. Good luck everyone.

[Sue Z]

Received this response from Glacier:

"Hi Susan,

I am emailing you to give you an update on what we have learned so far about the backcountry application issues from yesterday. On the first day of advance backcountry reservations, the service that Glacier National Park uses to administer the reservation system, Pay.gov, suffered a significant crash.

The park is working with Pay.gov to learn more about what data can be retrieved from the system, including application time stamps for all Pay.gov user accounts. We will make every effort to process applications in a fair and equitable manner based on Pay.gov investigative findings.

Our understanding is that over 1500 people attempted to access the advance reservation system in the first half hour after the system opened. To put that into perspective, on this day last year, 1600 people accessed the Glacier National Park advanced reservation system over the course of an entire day. The park is working with Pay.gov to expand site capacity to avoid this situation in the future.

We recognize the effort that each of you put into your backcountry trip planning, and regret your frustration attempting to submit an application.

To allow staff time to develop a plan to move forward with application processing, we ask that you refrain from calling or emailing the park at this time. The backcountry office will contact applicants as soon as is practical to inform you of your application's status.

Please let me know if you have further questions
​ about Glacier National Park​.

Teagan Tomlin
Visitor Services Assistant
Glacier National Park
nps.gov/glac
facebook.com/GlacierNPS
twitter - @glaciernps
http://www.flickr.com/photos/glaciernps"

[sbosecker]

Received this response from Glacier:
...The park is working with Pay.gov to learn more about what data can be retrieved from the system, including application time stamps for all Pay.gov user accounts. We will make every effort to process applications in a fair and equitable manner based on Pay.gov investigative findings.

Our understanding is that over 1500 people attempted to access the advance reservation system in the first half hour after the system opened. To put that into perspective, on this day last year, 1600 people accessed the Glacier National Park advanced reservation system over the course of an entire day. The park is working with Pay.gov to expand site capacity to avoid this situation in the future.

We recognize the effort that each of you put into your backcountry trip planning, and regret your frustration attempting to submit an application....

Thanks for posting this:

What good does "application time stamps" do for those of us that got stiff armed from getting to that point when we pushed the continue button at 10:00:05

Scott

[danwadas55]

Agreed thanks for posting. She responded to my letter too saying she forwarded it to the BC office. Hopefully they read the line "I know this is not Glacier BC personel's fault". Mine probably got lost in the flood of others haha. But I also agree, the timestamp is going to do little good unless there's some sort of way Pay.gov can give Glacier our login and first attempt times. The logins they prob have, but the first click attempt I highly doubt. Considering how pretty much everyone on this message board was logged in with a pre-loaded form at 10:00:01, I don't see how they're going to sort this one out without some sort of lottery. The BC Permit Office must be just as upset with Pay.gov as we are. Sorting through all of those applications is probably hard enough without all of this nonesense. I just hope that there's some sort of transparency for those who clearly were ready to submit at 10:00:00 and do not receive permits. It's gonna be extra frustrating if there's no explanation as to how they work through the permitting process when they've fully admitted there was a problem with the website and people start receiving Permit Denied letters.

[joshillian]

Pretty simple solution to all this from a capacity planning perspective: don't make it first come, first serve. Give advanced reservations a time window (several days, a week, whatever), and then do a lottery based on the responses received during that window.

Not sure why anyone uses first come, first serve for these time of processes. Unless you have just a monster of a system backing it up (or tremendously little demand), you're going to have capacity issues.

[NDjason]

I received my permit confirmation yesterday afternoon around 3pm. Shifted by a day from my target, but got the route I was hoping for!

Also, it appears the Backcountry availability link updated as the sites were assigned. Not sure if the link is still posted on the website, but you can access it here:

https://home.nps.gov/applications/glac/ ... bcmap.html

How everyone else is receiving theirs too! Happy hiking!

[tibber]

I received my permit confirmation yesterday afternoon around 3pm. Shifted by a day from my target, but got the route I was hoping for!

Also, it appears the Backcountry availability link updated as the sites were assigned. Not sure if the link is still posted on the website, but you can access it here:

https://home.nps.gov/applications/glac/ ... bcmap.html

How everyone else is receiving theirs too! Happy hiking!

Good for you. Where are you going?

I don't expect any news on mine before the end of the month.

[McKee80]

I received my permit confirmation yesterday afternoon around 3pm. Shifted by a day from my target, but got the route I was hoping for!

Congrats, man. That's awesome. I'm keeping my fingers crossed while planning backup trips

[Sue Z]

I received my permit confirmation yesterday afternoon around 3pm. Shifted by a day from my target, but got the route I was hoping for!

Great news!

BTW, they never got back to me saying how they resolved the snafu. It remains a mystery.