Dawson-Pit vs Gunsight Pass Backpack

[goooz]

I am planning a two night, three day backpacking trip into Glacier with some friends during the first week of July. Right now we are debating between a) Dawson-Pit loop in the Two Med area and b) Gunsight Pass (parking a car at Lake McDonald, shuttling to Jackson Glacier and then walking out). The mileage is purposely short (~6-8 per day) because we have one first time backpacker with us, but we want to get as much of a feel for the park as we can. In addition to this trip we'll be doing a day hike on the highline with the sidetrail overlook of Grinnell Glacier, because I was told that wasn't to be missed.

A few questions about the backpack:

1) It sounds like the campsites won't be clear of snow in early July when we're there. Similarly, I'm guessing there will be a fair amount of snow on the higher elevation trails. Is there a technical need for snow gear (crampons, etc.) or can we get by with standard gear (i.e. packs and poles)? Are the trails well maintained or will we be climbing through scree/boulders?

2) Do you think the snow is a reason to pick a lower part of the park for our trip? Are there any other trails in the 16-24mi range besides Dawson-Pit and Gunsight Pass that you highly recommend?

3) We're from Colorado so bear precautions are standard, but grizzlies sound like a whole different level of caution than what we're used to. We will be prepared with spray and camping stuff (eating in separate clothes, hanging anything scented, etc.), but all things being equal, we'd like to go to an area of the park where we're least less likely to run into a grizzly.

4) At the same time, we'd like to balance that with being in a less populated part of the park. It looks like Gunsight is in a crowded area (being not far from the main road)--will we run into a lot of other foot traffic there vs. Daw-Pit? Seeing some people is fine, but we don't want to be swarmed.

Any other advice/comments would be welcome since we're all brand new to the park.

Thanks!
Adam

[Heff936]

You may have snow hazards to deal with on either route depending on the weather from now until your trip. I'm guessing there are some here who will be able to opine on how fast DAW-Pit melts out in a typical year, which this one seems to be. If it is still snowed in I'd think it would be a pretty serious hazard, particularly given the wind that area often gets. In terms of bears, the park does a great job with the camps of minimizing negative bear encounters. On the trails just make sure and be a bit noisy and carry bear spray and know how to use and you should be fine. I've backpacked hundreds of miles in GNP and have rarely even seen Grizzlies on the backpacking portion of the trips.


Heff

[toddnick]

Either of these is likely to be treacherous the first week of July.

Definitely need crampons and ice axe and possible route finding if trail isn't clearly visible.

Gunsight Pass area generally doesn't become passable until at least late July.

You might want to stick to something lower like Belly River.

[joybird]

I am planning a two night, three day backpacking trip into Glacier with some friends during the first week of July. Right now we are debating between a) Dawson-Pit loop in the Two Med area and b) Gunsight Pass (parking a car at Lake McDonald, shuttling to Jackson Glacier and then walking out).

1) It sounds like the campsites won't be clear of snow in early July when we're there. Similarly, I'm guessing there will be a fair amount of snow on the higher elevation trails. Is there a technical need for snow gear (crampons, etc.) or can we get by with standard gear (i.e. packs and poles)? Are the trails well maintained or will we be climbing through scree/boulders?

The campsites you're talking about are not open in the beginning of July. The campsites at Gunsight Lake do not open until 7/15, and Lake Ellen Wilson and Sperry don't open until 8/1. The sites along the usual Dawson Pitamakan Loop don't open until 7/15.

If you're not familiar with the process for getting a backcountry camping permit in Glacier, it might be good for you to read up on that. It is different than the process in a lot of other national parks. Also, popular routes like the ones you are describing are really tough to get permits for...there is a lottery (which took place in mid-April) for half the sites, and the rest are done on a walk-up first-come, first-served basis starting the day before your backpack trip starts.

Here's a link that you might find helpful:

http://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/u ... -Guide.pdf

Hope you have a good trip! Even if you aren't able to do these routes then, there's lots of beautiful stuff in the lower elevations. You might look into the Belly River Valley?

[goooz]

Thanks for all the info! I was afraid that might be the case, but I wanted to be sure about the conditions before we nixed those two areas. I'll look into Belly River. Does anyone else have favorites that sound like they might be a good fit for us?

[Heff936]

The Belly River area which includes two drainages has many great lakeside campsites. The only downside is that the mosquitoes can be killer at some locations in early July. My favorite camps in that area would be Cosley Lake, Helen Lake, Mokawanis Lake, Elizabeth lake Foot and Glenns Lake Head. The Helen Lake camp is not likely to be open in early July but the rest will.

You can check the park website to see which camps are available for advanced registration for your dates. Only half the backcountry camps are available for advanced registration so, there is still a good chance of getting a permit in the Belly on a walkup basis.


Heff

[smahurin]

I would say for sure Gunsight would be very treacherous the first week of July. Gunsight usually has a few high angle snowfields that persist into late july that would be pretty dangerous. I honestly don't know how fast Daw/Pit melts out but first week of July is likely too early for that as well. This is a total guess but I would bet Daw/Pit is probably passable without ice axes/crampons likely towards the middle of July.

The Opening dates on the backcountry campsites are slightly misleading. Most of the sites actually open prior to the dates listed on the backcountry page. The dates listed are merely the first available date you can reserve them in advance. They set these dates so a zillion people don't request a high elevation campground like sperry or Lake ellen willson in mid june and then they all just have to cancel when they show up and realize everything is still snowed in. IIRC sperry opened around July 9th last year for instance even though its reservation opening date is Aug 1. The last BC campground in the park to open last year was Boulder pass which opened July 26. Keep in mind though that last year was a relatively average year in terms of snowfall. Whereas this past winter most areas of Montana, including glacier, saw significantly higher than average snowfall.

I would second the opinion of those suggesting the belly river. The belly river is a fantastic low elevation area in the park with great east side open views, as well as gorgeous lakes and lots of waterfalls. The belly river is also relatively less traveled compared to other areas of the park. This is because the only people in the belly are backpackers and you aren't dealing with the day hiking crowd. Do be prepared for mosquitos though.

[joybird]

The Opening dates on the backcountry campsites are slightly misleading. Most of the sites actually open prior to the dates listed on the backcountry page. The dates listed are merely the first available date you can reserve them in advance.

Thanks for this clarification! I hadn't known that.

[smahurin]

No worries. Ya the park service has already moved gable creek and mcdonald lake from winter status into "open" status. Someone is even staying at Mcdonald lake BC camp for the next few nights already....

... yes I'm a dork, and I'm super hyped for glacier so I looked at their walk-in availability. Plus I'm hoping to do a short out n back first or second week of June as it is, because I just plain can't wait any longer to get up there and out doing stuff.

[Ear Mountain]

Gunsight Pass will not be safe to hike in early July. That's pretty much a given every year. Not just in heavier snow years like this one seems to be. So cross that one off the list.

The Dawson-Pitamakin route might be hikeable in some years by the first week of July. But only in years with below average snowfall or very early melt out. That is not the case this year. There are always steep snowfields above No Name Lake and near Cut Bank Pass that persist well into July in years like this one. I would also suspect that Old Man Lake or Morning Star might still be snowed in on July 1.

Definitely need crampons and ice axe and possible route finding if trail isn't clearly visible.

There is one more thing you need that Todd didn't mention. You need the skill and experience to use these tools safely.

[mikie]

You mentioned that you are from Colorado. Are you a 14'er? If so, you will find hiking on official trails in Glacier quite easy. Most of the trails are on a very easy grade with very few stepping obstacles. There is nothing like the Boulder section to Long's Peak. Nothing remotely close to that. Breathing is easier too.

If you are a 14'er, you could easily do some off-trail day hikes. For this trip, I would bring snowshoes and crampons. Winter gear will open up other possibilities. Not sure I would bring ropes unless you like technical climbs.

As far as backpacking in highly desirable areas, you are going to run into problems. Most will not be open due to snow. You would need to stick to lower elevation hikes. Lower elevations also have more forest walks. The highly desirable areas are open like many of the 13'er and 14'ers. About 15 years ago I spent 4 weeks in Glacier doing day hikes during June. Had a terrific time. Day hiking might be your best bet. You could get in a few overnighters also. Like Goat Haunt, Belly, etc. There is so much to see and do, you will have a great time if you do your research.

[goooz]

All that feedback is really helpful, thank you everyone! We have done a lot of 14ers, and it's great to hear that the trails may be more trail-like in Glacier. We'd prefer to do the backpacking thing than dayhikes and would rather stay on trail than go wandering off.


A few more follow-up questions:

1) Are there particular areas of Belly River that are likely to have less mosquitoes? That doesn't sound like a lot fun and one of our party member's is a little allergic.

2) Do any of these sound good? Any favorites? I think they're all at relatively lower elevation (unless I misread something...)
a) Many Glacier -> Poia Lake (6.5mi) -> Elizabeth Lake 10mi -> Chief Mt (9mi)
b) Belly River -> Elizabeth Lake (9mi) -> Cosley Lakey (4mi) -> Bear Mtn Lookout and then out to Belly again
c) Cut Bank -> setup camp at Atlantic Creek then hike to medicine grizzly lake -> Red eagle -> St Marys

3) Also, as for our day-hike, is the highline passable in early July? By the sound of it, it goes pretty high elevation-wise.

Thanks again! I really appreciate all the help!
Adam

[pitamakan]

Early July, you'll likely be dealing with mosquitos no matter where you end up.

As for the hikes:

a) goes over Red Gap Pass, which is usually passable a little earlier than some of the other trail passes, but would still be iffy at best in early July. Poia Lake is one of my least-favorite campsites, but once you get past there the hike would improve considerably. See if you can get a current trail condition report on the pass once you arrive.

b) would be an excellent choice all around, I think. To make it more of a loop, you could look at hiking in to Elizabeth via Lee Ridge.

c) goes over Triple Divide Pass, which again might be problematic in early July. The last day, there'd be a fair amount of hiking through a burn area.

The Park Service used to try to open the HIghline on about July 1, but they're backed off of that goal in recent years, largely due to the danger involved. There's a chance the Highline will be open at the time of your visit, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Mark

[scott-atl]

Scenic point, in two medicine, because of its predominant southern exposure is usually the first ridge top hike you can do.

[mikie]

You might consider going to Mokowanis Lake. There are a number of beautiful waterfalls further up the valley from the campground to Margaret Lake and Ipasha Lake. It is a favorite. You can spend an entire day just hiking up the valley to see the waterfalls. Begin early in the season, the waterfalls will be running strong. You would be around 5,000'. Very easy hiking. There are some stream crossings. If you decide on this you also want to try and see Dawn Mist Falls (not at Mokowanis Lake).

Here is a trip report in early July to give you an idea: http://glacier.nationalparkschat.com/ph ... =11&t=8024 . It doesn't show Mokowanis, but will give you an idea of the Belly Valley.

This hike is mainly flat, so travelling will be very easy.

Belly -> COS -> MOL (or MOJ)

The Highline trail is very nice. Again, it is mainly flat. It is around 6500-7000'. Easy hike. If it is open I would definitely do it. The beginning has some exposure, but nothing terrible. Great views all day long. How do you plan on exiting the Highline trail?