How to interpret trips and itineraries?

[hikermtnbiker]

I am getting reading to submit a permit application for an upcoming backpacking trip to Glacier. I'm a bit confused as to what constitutes a new trip vs a new itinerary.

If my goal is to do a single trip in a certain area but my dates are flexible, would this be one trip with multiple itineraries? If more than 3 starting dates would work, would I submit this as a second trip? I assume that trips could be completely unique and that they might approve one trip on an application, two or none?

For the life of me, I cannot see how they manage to figure this all out.

Could anyone out there clarify with some examples?

Thanks

[Ear Mountain]

The application process can be a little daunting the first time you send one in.

The staff in the backcountry office wants to accommodate as many applications as possible so they request alternates to enable them to do some juggling where needed. Keep in mind that if your application is received in the BC office on or before April 15th it will be assigned a random location in the "pile" of applications. Applications received after April 15 will be processed after that first pile is completed. As the staff goes down through the "pile" sites and dates get filled up. If you provide no alternative and a site you want is filled then your permit application will be denied. The more alternatives you provide the better your chances of getting the itinerary you want but it might be on different dates or with other modifications.

Are you using the 2011 BC Permit Application Form? If not you can download it from the page at this url:
http://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/backcountry.htm

There are 4 columns on that page:
Column 1 is for the Trip Leader and payment info.
Column 2 is for your first trip.
Column 3 is for your second trip.
Column 4 provides room for additional comments and check boxes to specify whether you will accept alternate itineraries.

So if you are planning to do only one backcountry trip put your desired dates and sites in the 2nd column "Trip 1 - First Choice" area.
You might use the "Trip 1 - Second Choice" area to list your second choice of dates or alternate sites for your trip. Your first and second choices can be the same trip with different dates or it can be two different itineraries for the one time you will be in the backcountry.

If your dates are flexible put that information at the bottom of the second column. The check boxes at the bottom of column 2 (and 3) assume only one start and end date for your trip and assumes these are either before or after your First and Second choices or your trip. If you are visiting the park more than once you could provide that info in the 4th column where there is space for additional comments.

If you use both the 2nd and 3rd columns for the same trip you might end up with two reservations for the same trip and pay two reservation fees. Not good.

If you plan on taking two backcountry trips make sure that none of the dates of the second trip overlap the first trip since it's hard to be in two places at once.

If you plan on taking more than two backcountry trips, use a second form and make sure that none of the dates of any trip overlap any other.

Hope this helps and good luck. If it doesn't help, post more questions. We'll eventually get the right answer.
Have a great backcountry adventure in Glacier this year!

[Farmgirl]

Oh I wish I was submitting one this year!! The long and frequent prayers to the backcountry gods...the anxiety of waiting for the golden e-mail...the joy of getting the majority of the sites you wanted...aaaawwwwwww!!!

GOOD LUCK hikermtnbiker!!! Let us know what ya got

[hikermtnbiker]

Well, we got a permit a while back but not exactly what we wanted. We got shutout on our group permit for 10, as I imagined that we would. Pretty slim odd for that. So I resubmitted for 8, hoping that we could fill in the gaps with walk-ins or that maybe some folks would end up canceling out of the trip.

We got a permit but not for our first choice of the Highline. We got Two Medicine to St. Mary via Cut Bank Pass, with kind of a quirky campsite setup. We have a really short day (<5 miles) followed by a much longer day (>12 miles). Not ideal. It may all be moot if we don't get the needed extra 2 permits.

ENTRY TNE TWO MEDICINE NORTH
DATE CODE CAMPSITE
9/ 6 OLD 22 OLDMAN LAKE
9/ 7 MOR 23 MORNING STAR
9/ 8 REH 35 RED EAGLE, HD

[dorf]

That's not a bad route at all. The "quirky campsites" are the price you pay for backpacking in a national park vs. a designated wilderness area.

Considering the time of year you're doing this, I'd say your chances of getting at least another identical permit are quite good. If you send your 3rd group SOBO you could maybe at least spend a night together at MOR---or ATL if you try to make a switch. If you have two vehicles at your disposal then you open yourself up to some other options.

[elscout198]

Oh I wish I was submitting one this year!! The long and frequent prayers to the backcountry gods...the anxiety of waiting for the golden e-mail...the joy of getting the majority of the sites you wanted...aaaawwwwwww!!!

GOOD LUCK hikermtnbiker!!! Let us know what ya got

What farm baby isn't hiking this year ! And you say your from Wisconsin


(just kidding)

[Farmgirl]

Well, we got a permit a while back but not exactly what we wanted. We got shutout on our group permit for 10, as I imagined that we would. Pretty slim odd for that. So I resubmitted for 8, hoping that we could fill in the gaps with walk-ins or that maybe some folks would end up canceling out of the trip.

We got a permit but not for our first choice of the Highline. We got Two Medicine to St. Mary via Cut Bank Pass, with kind of a quirky campsite setup. We have a really short day (<5 miles) followed by a much longer day (>12 miles). Not ideal. It may all be moot if we don't get the needed extra 2 permits.

ENTRY TNE TWO MEDICINE NORTH
DATE CODE CAMPSITE
9/ 6 OLD 22 OLDMAN LAKE
9/ 7 MOR 23 MORNING STAR
9/ 8 REH 35 RED EAGLE, HD

Jen, Heff, and I tried doing that same route 2yrs? ago, got cancelled due to bears at Morning Star. We stayed at Oldman however and thats a great campsite and a scenic hike as well!! I hear great things about Morning Star too!!! Keep your trip and fill in extra days with some day hikes?

[Farmgirl]

What farm baby isn't hiking this year ! And you say your from Wisconsin


(just kidding)

Oh I'm from Wisconsin, not lying about that ...all you have to do is hear me say is "bag" or "no" and you could practically pinpoint my location The long vowels are a giveaway

As far as hiking, farmbaby is staying on the farm...mom's hiking trip is still up in the air however. I would need a stellar babysitter

[Jen]

What farm baby isn't hiking this year ! And you say your from Wisconsin


(just kidding)

Oh I'm from Wisconsin, not lying about that ...all you have to do is hear me say is "bag" or "no" and you could practically pinpoint my location The long vowels are a giveaway

As far as hiking, farmbaby is staying on the farm...mom's hiking trip is still up in the air however. I would need a stellar babysitter

I love your long vowels

[elscout198]

I also suspect some people question how you say Wisconsin
I have been out of the State for 30 years and people down south say I do not say it correctly


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