Any Chance of Permits If I Submit Now?

Are you a seasoned hiker, or just starting out? Let us know your questions or experience with the backcountry permit process.

Moderators: teapot57, Tara

Post Reply
aligator
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:07 pm
Gender?: Female
Please add the numbers(11): 11

Any Chance of Permits If I Submit Now?

Post by aligator »

Hi All. First time poster here. Apologies in advance if I have some newbie questions.

I do realize we are a little (or perhaps a LOT late) to the permit party. We are looking to visit glacier August 22 - September 5 time frame. I am trying to figure out what my strategy should be now that I missed the initial permitting wave.

It looks like in reading the forum that people who submitted the first day are still getting their reservations slowly? Is there any chance if we submit now-ish to get permits? For reference the itinerary I sketched has us doing 2 nights with the Dawson Pitamaken and ideally 4-5 nights to Boulder Pass (but this later has the car shuttle detail we'd have to work out).

I am wondering if because we have some flexibility on our dates, if our chances for permits are higher?

Or similarly (but way out of my comfort zone) could we take out chances with walk up permits?

Thank you!
daschmit
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:09 am
Gender?: Male
Please add the numbers(11): 11

Re: Any Chance of Permits If I Submit Now?

Post by daschmit »

If you were able to push your visit back to the second half of September, your chances of getting a permit would improve even more. Depending on precisely where you want to go, logistics can become more challenging and weather can become iffier, with a greater chance of snow. On the other hand, late September usually coincides with the peak of fall color and the rutting season for elk. ‘tis, without question, my favorite time of the year to visit Glacier.

If you would like a little photographic evidence of why late September is such a special time in Glacier, see this photo blog entry: http://daryl-hunter.net/autumn-photogra ... mment-1899 as well as these images: http://theholepicture.photoshelter.com/ ... 23ZYavoPsk.
PeteE
Posts: 3346
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:20 pm
Gender?: Male
Please add the numbers(11): 11
Location: Winter hHaven Florida
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Any Chance of Permits If I Submit Now?

Post by PeteE »

aligator wrote:Hi All. First time poster here. Apologies in advance if I have some newbie questions.

Not to worry> Everyone here was a "newbie" at some point :)
So ask away!


I do realize we are a little (or perhaps a LOT late) to the permit party. We are looking to visit glacier August 22 - September 5 time frame. I am trying to figure out what my strategy should be now that I missed the initial permitting wave.

It looks like in reading the forum that people who submitted the first day are still getting their reservations slowly? Is there any chance if we submit now-ish to get permits?

Your chances, in my opinion, of getting a reservation(for anything you might want to do) are slim and none at this point. You would be at the end of the line--a very long line of applicants. That said, you can apply and maybe lightening will strike, but I doubt it. At worst, you lose your $10 processing fee.

For reference the itinerary I sketched has us doing 2 nights with the Dawson Pitamaken and ideally 4-5 nights to Boulder Pass (but this latter has the car shuttle detail we'd have to work out).

Your chances, at this point, approach zero for an reserved itinerary for either of those areas. And yes, transport in the North Fork will be difficult.

I am wondering if because we have some flexibility on our dates, if our chances for permits are higher?
As daschmit pointed out, late September would give you a better chance at a reserved itinerary, but only marginally better, at best.
You might want to push back your arrival date a week or so. The first two weeks of September would minimize weather risk. The park will still be be busy, but all the services, etc. will still be available.
I would not recommend the last two weeks of September for someone's first visit. Transportation/shuttle issues become much more difficult. However, the biggest risk imo is weather. Late September can be nice, but there is also a very good chance of snow in late September---actually snow can fall any time in September.



Or similarly (but way out of my comfort zone) could we take out chances with walk up permits?

I dunno why you would say "way out of your comfort zone".
At this point, doing a walk up permit is your absolute best chance at getting a good itinerary.

Keep in mind that roughly HALF of ALL the campsite spaces are reserved just for walk up permits.
The BC Office didn't mess with the walk up process like they did the advanced reservation process. I plan to use the walk up process for my backpacking.

One of the biggest objections to the walk up process is people don't want to haul their butt out of bed at 4-5AM to get down to a permit office so they can be first, or second in line. The Permit Offices open at 7AM. I know many people, including myself, who have gotten great itineraries doing a walk up permit.
However, you MUST get there early and be 1st or 2nd in line if you want to get a shot at the best sites.
If there are two in your party, send one for breakfast snacks while you wait. BOTH of you must watch the bear and safety info though after you get your permit.
I usually take a book to read.
You can also yak with others in line.
One morning I was waiting in line when two guys showed up after driving 12 hours all night. They had NO permit, but...
they met another couple who were picking up their permit(they had a reservation) who allowed them to get on their permit---a six night version Northern Circle route.
So they went from "nothing" to getting one of the best routes GNP has to offer.
"Stuff happens", sometimes GOOD stuff 8)

If you're going to try for a walk up, you need to learn how to interpret the information on this site--especially in the days immediately before you arrive.
You'll be able to see what campsites are available for the days following.

https://home.nps.gov/applications/glac/ ... status.cfm

This site is updated every afternoon around 5PM AFTER the last permits of the day are issued.
You(and everyone) will know precisely what campsites have a spot(s) available 6 nights out.
This page on the website is printed out and posted on the outside of the permit offices every afternoon as well as being available on-line.
Learn to read and interpret this page; it's not hard and people here can help you if need be.


This was at the Apgar BC Office. There are permit offices at Swiftcurrent Ranger Station, St Mary entrance, Two Medicine ranger Station. Polebridge is NOT open at 7AM. Don't wait there.


Thank you!
You're quite welcome. Ask questions. lots of knowledgeable folks here to answer them...or give their opinions 8)

pete :wink:
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

George Carlin
aligator
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:07 pm
Gender?: Female
Please add the numbers(11): 11

Re: Any Chance of Permits If I Submit Now?

Post by aligator »

Thanks for the replies. The last bit of information about walk ups was super helpful.

I say out of my comfort zone because normally I am waaaaay on top of permit planning for our other trips (in Banff region, in the NW) but this year it did not happen due to massive schedule uncertainty until now. So we've never actually done the walk up thing anywhere else. But we are very good at getting up early when needed! And I have no doubt we can learn the details so we go in prepared.

I think I know what I need: Though we are super unlikely to get any advance itinerary we want this year, walk ins are totally doable if we are willing to go early and be prepared.

I am going to do a bunch of research but I will likely be asking some more questions later!
joybird
Donator
Donator
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:03 pm
Gender?: Female
Please add the numbers(11): 11
Location: Afton, Virginia
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Any Chance of Permits If I Submit Now?

Post by joybird »

I might also point out that if you're willing to "settle" for one of the less iconic routes, you'll find there are still lots of other beautiful spots to backpack to in Glacier which probably will not be assigned in the initial lottery. I think most people have a "Boulder Pass or Bust" mentality...which leaves open interesting opportunities if you're willing to branch out a bit.

For example, last year after receiving my permit for the St. Mary to Two Med route, I put in for second permit on a much less popular route (PAR-ISA-ISA-PAR) and had no trouble getting it. Although much of the hike up Park Creek was less "spectacular" than some of the other routes I've done, the solitude was wonderful and the valley felt much more intimate than the wide expanses of other routes I have done. And of course Isabel is spectacular...and getting two nights at ISA was meant I was able to dayhike up to Two Medicine Pass without having to lug a full pack -- or to spend time striking/making camp.

Another year, after securing my "popular" permit, I put in for a second permit consisting of two nights at Flattop...which allowed me to dayhike to 50 Mountain and the Sue Lake Overlook without having to fight for one of the hard-to-get sites at GRN or FIF. Plus, I got to see the Garden Wall from a very different perspective than you get from the Highline. It was way worth it.

You might also consider planning a longer route that starts in a "less popular" area and then takes you to the area you want to get to. For example, if you are set on doing Dawson-Pitamakan as a backpack rather than a dayhike, you could plan a route like PAR-ISA-UPP-exit Two Med. Then, when you get to Glacier you could try for a walk-up change/add-on that would let you make your way over to NON and/or OLD, which are both much easier sites to get walk-up permits for on the 4th or 5th night of an itinerary than on the 1st or 2nd.

Good luck to you! And remember...there are no bad backpacks in Glacier!
User avatar
paul
Donator
Donator
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:42 pm
Gender?: Male
Please add the numbers(11): 11
Location: MA
Has thanked: 61 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Any Chance of Permits If I Submit Now?

Post by paul »

You might actually knows this already but Dawson-Pitamakin can be done as a day hike.. Actually, most people do it as a day hike. If you use the boat, it is only 16 miles.
We are in the mountains and the mountains are in us. - John Muir
User avatar
TnTammy
Donator
Donator
Posts: 388
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:44 pm
Gender?: Female
Please add the numbers(11): 11
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Any Chance of Permits If I Submit Now?

Post by TnTammy »

Hi Aligator,
We've had really good luck with the Walk-Up Permit process. Both times we landed Hole and Frances as a latter night out (3rd, 4th or 5th). Would encourage you to take PeteE's advice regarding an early arrival at the Permit office if going for a WalkUp though. Brought my coffee, sleeping bag and fabric chair and cozied right up against the door, arriving about 4:30am (yeahhhh, little bit neurotic on that!) Pretty exhiliarating to land a great Walkup! 8)

Like others have suggested, i think it really important to have multiple itineraries ready to go in your mind as you step up to see what's available at that moment. With 3 other offices opening at the same time to give Permits, you don't want to stall too long if your first choice gets taken. That's where Chat was really helpful in advance, to be able to read trip reports of other itineraries and scoop up ideas on sweet spots from the Pro's (just like what Joybird suggested). So many of those 'lesser thought of' campsites are at or near great locales. And a lesser desirable camp on Night #1 can be your open door to a fantastic weeklong itinerary.
E.g. Accepting Waterton or Goat Haunt Shelter as your 1st night for an itinerary eventually headed to Fifty and Stoney, or up to Boulder Pass.
We've yet to try Slide Lake as our 1st night to a trip in The Belly but numerous reports are that its a fine camp and great hiking up Lee Ridge to get to it.
With each of these alternatives however is the required logistics about your vehicle worked out in advanc. So our Walkups were likely going to be "Out and Back". That's actually not been a disappointment at all as the scenery looks anew on the return.

At our fingertips though, we had looked into logistics if we wanted to sign up for a ThruHike. I.E. the shuttle situation, which now is much more limited than in the past. We also talked to a taxi company that functioned out of Browning, The Mountain Chief Cab Company, and for a price they could provide transport to/from Chief Mtn. Don't really have any reviews however of the reliability of this service. We also questioned, if we came out at Chief, if we would have cell service there to be able to call for the Cab? Didn't know if the Border Crossing station might allow us access to a landline but doubted it. If going between Chief and Goat Haunt for example, there is a shuttle from Waterton to the Border Crossing with "www.hikewaterton.com" but only runs once a day. So i called them and for higher fee, one could arrange a private shuttle. Am just suggesting that these are things you might want to have checked into so that when you get to the Permit Desk, you have the most options for a great itinerary.

I know there are alot of variables involved with a WalkUp but i hope this is helpful.

Best Of LUCK!! Tam
Last edited by TnTammy on Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
sbosecker
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:23 am
Please add the numbers(11): 0
Location: Peachtree City GA
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: Any Chance of Permits If I Submit Now?

Post by sbosecker »

TnTammy wrote: ...we had looked into the shuttle situation, say if we began at Chief and came out at Many Glacier...
Just to be clear, at this time I am not aware of any shuttle service - on the USA side of the border - between Chief Mountain and anywhere else ...including Many Glacier.

Best regards,

Scott
User avatar
TnTammy
Donator
Donator
Posts: 388
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:44 pm
Gender?: Female
Please add the numbers(11): 11
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Any Chance of Permits If I Submit Now?

Post by TnTammy »

sbosecker wrote:
TnTammy wrote: ...we had looked into the shuttle situation, say if we began at Chief and came out at Many Glacier...
Just to be clear, at this time I am not aware of any shuttle service - on the USA side of the border - between Chief Mountain and anywhere else ...including Many Glacier.

Best regards,

Scott
Yes, thank you for that correction Scott regarding the current shuttle situation. There is NOT now a shuttle to Chief. Our last WalkUp was in 2016, so I was referring to our footwork about transport at that time. Similarly, our 2017 trip had us leaving the car at Many, starting at Logan with a finish back at Many. We checked with the Mountain Chief Cab Co just as a backup if for any reason they closed Ptarmigan Tunnel (like they do on occasion of ‘bear frequenting’). I was just curious about them as an option.
Suffices to say, that anyone going for a WalkUp should check into these logistics beforehand to assure their options.
Thanks again for alerting folks about that.
Post Reply

Return to “Backcountry Permits”