permit strategy for 5 or 6 hikers

Are you a seasoned hiker, or just starting out? Let us know your questions or experience with the backcountry permit process.

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Paulleventhaldds
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permit strategy for 5 or 6 hikers

Post by Paulleventhaldds »

Hope you are all staying warm this winter.....

I am planning 5 days 4 nights August 10 - 14 ( flexible +/-1 day and reverse route)

carefully reading thru the old posts, I don't see much written about 5 or 6 hikers, I suppose thats because most campsites don't fit 3 tents and 6 hikers

what is the best chance of getting our route accepted. Here are my thoughts,
1) apply for 4 people on March 15th , get one of my route options that I asked for in April , and then (at 5AM ) go to walk up permits and ask for 2 more permits for that route ( is that totally risky?)
2) apply for 6 campers on march 15th and probably not get my preferred route and have nothing to go on when we do walk up at 5 AM
3) dis-invite 2 hikers because all of you agree that 6 hikers in one party isn't going to happen in this lottery system.

FYI here are my route options

CME - COS - MOL - FIF - GRN - LOOP
JOE - GUN - GUN - ELL - SPE - Lake
MANY - ELF - MOJ - STO - FIF - GRN - Swift

I would LOVE if anyone would help with these choices since you folks seem to know this stuff .... Any comments would be appreciated.
thanks for the very helpful Chat room..... lets all pray for a smooth March 15th lottery day.
your thoughts
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Re: permit strategy for 5 or 6 hikers

Post by NDjason »

If you're trying for a permit for 6, you'll need two campsites at each camp as they won't allow more than four in a single site. I've never tried it, but I would guess you'd have a better chance looking for routes that have large campgrounds along it. For example, MOL only has two sites, if I remember correctly. And I think only one can be reserved. So it may not even be possible to get a site there. However, there are more sites at MOJ, and while not as nice, you'd have a better chance of getting a permit.

You can check online to see how many sites are reserved at each campground. Of course, you could also accept any substitutions along the route too and probably have the same result.

My gut would say you're going to be hard pressed to score one of your preferred routes exactly with 6 campers unless you get pulled early in the lottery. Chances would be higher with 4 or less. The wider your date range, the better too.

The good news is it's hard to get a bad route! Good luck!
~ jason
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Re: permit strategy for 5 or 6 hikers

Post by PeteE »

Jason is right Paul.

You're going to have a very difficult, nearly impossible time getting an itinerary for 5-6 people.
Even with an ideal early draw March 15th, as Jason pointed out, the number of reservable sites in those areas of the park works against you.
The hugely popular Gunsight Pass route is extremely difficult to get for anyone any time.
This is especially true since park visitation has been way up the last few years, and therefore competition for campsites is correspondingly up as well.

One suggestion might be to try for an itinerary in the southern part of the park.
There's some awesome scenery down there. Some parts of the Nyack require route finding skills plus creek crossings requiring wading.
So imo, best done later in the season when creeks are down and lush spring grown dies back some.

Something like the following would be a trip of the lifetime imo with big time "bragging rights".
Each of these sights has only two reservable campsites, so you would likely have no other company.

The good news is there will likely be very little to no competition for any of these sites.
That said, give the Backcountry Office the widest possible date range you can....like Aug-1-Aug 31.
Then plan everything around that. Big hassle but it would be worth it.

There are numerous stream crossings and the trail(s) will require route finding in some places.
So someone will definitely need route finding skills for the safety of your group.
And ALL of you will need to be in top shape.

Check out MattB's route finding app to get trail profile info and confirm distances.
http://www.mattb.nationalparkschat.com/ ... lanner.htm

Info below I got here:
https://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/ ... ap-Web.pdf

COE--Coal Creek trailhead of US2.
Night 1 COA 6.6 miles
Night 2 BEA 11.0 miles
Night 3 UPN 9.7 miles
night 4 LNY 10.0 miles
Out at NCE 5.8 miles

Requires short shuttle between NCE and COE.
Will you have 2 cars?


pete :wink:
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

George Carlin
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Re: permit strategy for 5 or 6 hikers

Post by Paulleventhaldds »

Wow, thanks to you both for getting back to me so fast and the answers are just what I was expecting, although, not such good news.

I don't think we can handle poorly marked trails, Hard, long days are fun , getting lost isn't.
Here is one thought... do you think that if we set ourselves up with Glacier Guides hiking outfitters and let them deal with the permitting process guaranteeing that all 6 of us would be together. They might have a better chance to score good routes.
they say on their website that they get in the same lines as the general public on "walk up" day so they know better what to ask for and then all the guess work is out of my hands. It seems like all this is better handled by a pro and I really don't care about money. Just want to get to hike Glaicer and see what everyone has been talking about.
My thinking is , when you go down the Colorado River, you go with river guides and the trip is awesome. Their service enhances the experience. Other parks and hikes can be done without the use of guides but this park seems to be different (and sadly, too much uncertainty is getting in the way )
So what do you think of the local outfitters to handle the permitting and some of the logistics?
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Re: permit strategy for 5 or 6 hikers

Post by orin »

At least one of the contributors to this board, Selkie, did a hike with Glacier Guides some time ago and as I recall had a good experience. You might try searching for it. So it is probably worth your time to talk to them.
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Re: permit strategy for 5 or 6 hikers

Post by TnTammy »

Paulleventhaldds wrote:Wow, thanks to you both for getting back to me so fast and the answers are just what I was expecting, although, not such good news.

I don't think we can handle poorly marked trails, Hard, long days are fun , getting lost isn't.
Here is one thought... do you think that if we set ourselves up with Glacier Guides hiking outfitters and let them deal with the permitting process guaranteeing that all 6 of us would be together. They might have a better chance to score good routes.
they say on their website that they get in the same lines as the general public on "walk up" day so they know better what to ask for and then all the guess work is out of my hands. It seems like all this is better handled by a pro and I really don't care about money. Just want to get to hike Glaicer and see what everyone has been talking about.
My thinking is , when you go down the Colorado River, you go with river guides and the trip is awesome. Their service enhances the experience. Other parks and hikes can be done without the use of guides but this park seems to be different (and sadly, too much uncertainty is getting in the way )
So what do you think of the local outfitters to handle the permitting and some of the logistics?
Hi there, just wanted to give a thumbs-up impression of Glacier Guides. While my husband and I have not used them, we've shared camps with them at BC sites like GUN, ELL, COS and ELF. Each time they've caught our attention r/t the nice meals they're whipping up and the general good times had by their customers. Our Mtn House doesn't really hold a candle to mushroom risotto and fresh salad for example. And boy, the smell of their breakfast at GUN with bacon and eggs was heavenly (we had our usual granola & nido). They had a neat little plan for doing the dishes which was respectful of the food prep area. A different morning was oatmeal (not instant) with fruit.
Being curious about their services in general & for friends and family back home, I've taken to asking the guides a few questions. Starting with their ratios, which i'm sure varies, but the ones i asked were on 1 guide per group of 7. How did they get their permits? Yup, early in the Walk-Up Line just like many of us. Like you were saying for your group of 6, they had to snag two camps in the walk-up process, so the guide was suggesting they had numerous plans in mind when they stepped up to make a selection. Nice thing for them is not having to worry about the shuttling logistics, the company can drop-off and pick-up, which gives great freedom on point to point trips. Three of the guides i talked with were female, had several years under their belt, in great shape and had an infectious positivity...truly loved their job. I'm always up early but they beat me up. Would have the water filtered, coffee going, all the plates and mugs out for each individual....lots of nice touches. The guide at cosley was adjusting meals for several dietary constraints within that one group...no prob.
I sorta eyed the gear that the customers were carrying too. Newish Osprey packs and two man tents that seemed in good shape and not too small.
Of note, lots of laughter and good spirits. And many of these folks were newbies to the backcountry. I credited the guides with providing a good experience where people received some education about bear country, and selected distances/terrain that were manageable r/t the group's experience.
Sorry if i sound like a commercial for them...i have no attachment to the company. Over the years, i've recommended them to numerous people but don't know of anyone other than Selkie who has used them.
Definitely envious of their BC cooking skills!
Best of luck with your group trip! Tam
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Re: permit strategy for 5 or 6 hikers

Post by Selkie »

Paulleventhaldds:
I will send you a pm/email.
My personal concern is the time window, which could put you smack in fire season.

That said, there usually is some part of Glacier NP, or somewhere, that is beautiful and refreshing to hike in.
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