Ole Creek - new trail

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llholmes1948
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Ole Creek - new trail

Post by llholmes1948 »

An interesting item from September 1971 in the Yesterdays Column in the Hungry Horse News. I was in the Park at the time helping to close down Lake McDonald Lodge but as it was late in the season, my invitation to go on this hike must have gotten misplaced.

50 years ago

Sept. 17, 1971

Editor Mel Ruder went on an excursion with Glacier Park brass into the Ole Creek drainage. At the time there was a plan to make a trail from Firebrand Pass north to Dawson Pass.
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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by sbosecker »

llholmes1948 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:31 am An interesting item from September 1971 in the Yesterdays Column in the Hungry Horse News. I was in the Park at the time helping to close down Lake McDonald Lodge but as it was late in the season, my invitation to go on this hike must have gotten misplaced.

50 years ago

Sept. 17, 1971

Editor Mel Ruder went on an excursion with Glacier Park brass into the Ole Creek drainage. At the time there was a plan to make a trail from Firebrand Pass north to Dawson Pass.
This post made me wonder... when was the last "new" trail in Glacier constructed? There seems to be plenty of abandoned trails. HA!

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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by orin »

Aside from a few new "paths" like those between the new visitor center at Apgar and the campground, I don't think there have been any new long distance trails in more than 60 years. And probably 25 or 30% of the trail inventory has been abandoned. I took a quick look at a map. A trail from Firebrand Pass to Dawson Pass would be quite an undertaking.
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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by zozeppelin »

orin wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:47 pm And probably 25 or 30% of the trail inventory has been abandoned.
Interesting. Any recommendations on where to learn more about historic trails? I have seen some references from the trail status pages about trails NW from Kintla and N from Belly River, but nothing too exciting.
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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by PeteE »

I wouldn't look for new trails any time soon. They don't have the manpower to patrol and maintain the current trail system.
And that problem is exacerbated by the nationwide problem of people not wanting to work.

There was talk in one of those long range plans that published recently of making the Reynolds mountaineering trail an "official trail" out to the Dragon's Tail. That would be easy since the Reynolds Mountaineering trail already exists. I would support that idea.

I just hope the whining "nanny staters" in the NPS don't nix it because the Dragon's Tail might be too dangerous--which is utter nonsense.
I've personally seen many children, some pretty young, do the Dragon's Tail.

The same report also mentioned making a trail from Lunch Creek to Piegan Pass.
That would be a really great route.
And so that's another excellent idea that I would support.

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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by paul »

I wouldn't want to see the Reynold mountaineer's trail be made into an official trail. Not because it's too dangerous but because it will bring more people (a lot more people) into that area which is for the most part pretty peaceful.
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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by wnysteve »

zozeppelin wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:44 pm

Interesting. Any recommendations on where to learn more about historic trails? I have seen some references from the trail status pages about trails NW from Kintla and N from Belly River, but nothing too exciting.
I think the longest trail that was abandoned was the West Lakes Trail. That trail could take one from Lake McDonald to Kintla. Today, if you take the trail from Bowman Lake to Akokala Lake, you will come to a "T" in the trail. The right-hand trail takes you to the Lake. To the left is a little-used but still Official trail that goes to the auto road that leads from Polebridge to Kintla. There is no option to continue straight, but back in the day that is what the West Lakes Trail did, taking the hiker as far as Parke Ridge and down into Kintla. If that trail were still open today, it would solve the transportation problem encountered by those who hike the Kintla-to-Bowman horseshoe and only have one car to return to their starting point.

Here is a link on the subject of lost trails, written by one who has a deep knowledge of Glacier, past and present.

http://www.glacier.nationalparkschat.co ... 165#p25165
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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by PeteE »

paul wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:14 am I wouldn't want to see the Reynold mountaineer's trail be made into an official trail. Not because it's too dangerous but because it will bring more people (a lot more people) into that area which is for the most part pretty peaceful.
I understand your point of view Paul and I'm sympathetic to it, but...
The "cat's out of the bag" regarding the Dragon's Tail---another victim of social media imo.
There are already "a lot more people" going out the Reynolds trail.
There is now an obvious worn path from the Hidden Lake trail over to the beginning of the Reynolds trail--and it encourages people to follow it.
It's no longer "peaceful" like it was 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago. LOTs of people climbing Reynolds as well as going out to the DT.

Glacier is becoming more and more like Yosemite or Yellowstone--packed with people like never before.
It is STILL crowded at Glacier as of last week. I went over after work last Thursday afternoon about 2pm.
PACKED! parking was non existent at both Avalanche Creek and Logan Pass. Same for most of the pullouts.
GNP will never be "peaceful" again imo unless you backpack in to areas unreachable as a day hike.
And then you have to deal with the a$$holes who steal campsites without a permit.
Sad, isn't it? :(

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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by orin »

Any recommendations on where to learn more about historic trails?
The old Ruhl books are a good source as linked in wnysteve's post (if you can find them). I have an old trail map from 1963 that gives a good overview of the trails that existed then. Just to name a few:

There used to be a trail from the head of Red Eagle Lake over Red Eagle Pass and down into the Nyack.
The current Flattop trail replaced a pair of trails, one from near Packer's Roost up McDonald Creek, the other up Mineral Creek, both ending at Fifty Mountain.
There used to be a trail down the west side of Dawson Pass into the Nyack.
There used to be a trail from Cut Bank campground south along the park boundary to about the present day entrance station on Two Medicine road.
The West Lakes trail already mentioned.
Trails up Kennedy creek and Boulder Creek on the east side and Dutch Creek on the west side.
Plus a lot of bits and pieces here and there that probably weren't very spectacular but that in '63 added up to 1000 miles.
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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by tibber »

fascinating about the old trails. I wonder how they decided which ones to keep vs not? I know when we hiked between Atlantic Creek and Morningstar, I swear I could see another trail below us. It would be awesome if maybe they could re-commission one or two of those old trails and add a new one here and there but I just don't think they have the funds to do any of that. It's too bad a volunteer group couldn't do something like that.

When we hiked to Ahern Pass from the Chalet this August, the old pipe holes in the wall before the Drift were pointed out to us. They were apparently used for old hand rails; altho the trail had to have been a little higher then (around the Ahern Drift). FYI - apparently this late spring there were three blowouts thru that area; such an incredible thing to see the remnants of. (I am working on trip report and videos now which I will post links for when I'm done... it's a slow process).

It would be fun to see photos from those old trails. Anyway, thanks for sharing the info.
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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by zozeppelin »

Fascinating indeed!

Thanks Orin and Steve - you have sent me down the wormhole :shock:

I do remember the trail along Waterton River around the Stoney intersection where the cabin is, supposedly going somewhere west.

I also found myself looking backwards going from Dawson to Pitamakan this year, wondering about a trail South through the mountains (which I guess would be dropping into Park Creek eventually). Same for between Triple Divide and Red Eagle looking west into the valley shelf (following Red Eagle Creek). Trip report coming!
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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by zozeppelin »

Here are a couple links to scanned books for the ones mentioned:

Elrod (1st Edition) - Link
Ruhle (3rd Edition, Revised) - Link
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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by PeteE »

Orin:
I've looked at the Boulder Creek drainage many times from Siyeh Pass. Do you believe it's possible to still hike up the drainage and how far?
I wonder if enough of the old trail is still visible or would it be the bushwhack from hell?
Where would the "trailhead" be?

pete :wink:
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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by orin »

Since there seems to be some interest I took a quick photo of the 1963 map I referred to above. The quality is not great but it does give an overview of what the trail system looked like.

Pete,

Nice picture. I have no idea if the trail still exists or not. It would probably be a brush bash if it could be found at all.

Back in the mid 60s there was a Boy Scout camp on the west side of Lower St. Mary Lake called Camp Napi. Scouts from the little towns out on the Montana prairie could spend a week there. I attended for a couple of summers when I was about 10. One of the optional activities was a 2 or 3 night backpack into Glacier Park up Boulder Creek. I don't remember much about it but I think we drove only a few miles to a nearby trailhead. The map shows that there was a trailhead on the west side road and also a trailhead on the Many Glacier road. The trail went over a low ridge and into the Boulder creek drainage and then up the creek. Looking at the map, the trail appears to hug the north side of the creek and then just ends near the small lake in your picture without any connection to the Siyeh Pass trail.

There is probably an archive of old USGS topographic maps somewhere if someone wanted to go to the effort of finding it.

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Re: Ole Creek - new trail

Post by zozeppelin »

Thanks Orin! Really cool, things I noticed:
1) Bowman to Kintla connector as has been mentioned
2) Wabun Lake (north Belly River) - this is what I recalled from trail status pages but isn't on the maps
3) Nyack Loop over Red Eagle Pass to Red Eagle Lake -this is what I was wondering about while hiking
4) Boulder Creek drainage (as Pete mentioned but I think his post was deleted?)
5) Dawson Pass to Nyack Loop as has been mentioned
6) Two medicine to Cutbank on the perimeter
7) Trails around Stoney X Waterton intersection (
8) Past Helen Lake up to (?) Ahern Pass
9) Boundary Creek (from Waterton west along the border)
10) NW of Kintla several trails with border crossings
11) Trails from McDonald all the way to Kintla (not exactly direct, but weaving through the existing (mostly) trails up the creeks

I'm rambling at this point, but just really interesting. Thanks again!
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