Ticketed Entry Issue

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Chip
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Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by Chip »

The park website says they prefer I enter on my first day of my 7 day entry ticket but its not mandatory. However Recreation.gov site says You must enter on the first day of your 7 day ticket. Anyone know which is right?

al_in_al
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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by al_in_al »

My understanding is that the park sets the rules, and recreation.gov just facilitates the purchase of the tickets. I believe the park website has the most up-to-date information - they started by saying you had to enter on the first day of your ticket, but since have relaxed that requirement, according to their FAQs.

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Chip
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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by Chip »

Al
I see the responses from both entities.
This is the response I just got from Recreation.gov

Hi Kenneth,
Thank you for contacting Recreation.gov.

We’ve reviewed your request for Glacier National Park Ticketed Entry and wanted to provide the following information about Glacier National Park Ticketed Entry:

Ticketed Entry reservation holders must arrive on the first day of their reservation in order for their tickets to be validated.

We hope this helps address your request. If you need any additional information or support, please refer to the Help & Support section below for further assistance.



I would hate to follow the parks answer and find out its not the official word when I finally arrive at the gate. Sure would be nice if this was clarified.
Chip

Selkie
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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by Selkie »

Chip,
Recreation.gov is a scheduling app.
I would rely on the Park (but print out any correspondence from the Park). Usually on-site park managers have authority to make decisions.

Rec.gov is run on contract from the government by a private company, Booze-Allen-Hamilton.
An interesting article (harangue) on what happens when NPS and public land management are underfunded. Read and weep, scream, tear your hair out:
https://pmags.com/the-scourge-of-rec-dot-gov

(There is also a belief in some quarters that the site is susceptible to bots and third parties grabbing everything the minute reservations open.)

PeteE
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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by PeteE »

I drove out to the park around noon yesterday.
Businesses in West Glacier are beginning to "wake up". Most were open.
Apgar had a few people, but nothing I'd call a "crowd".

I stopped in at the Backcountry Office and asked about "overnight parking" on the GTTS road.
If it matters, the Ranger I spoke with is one who has worked at GNP for a good while. I know her just by sight
So here's what the Ranger told me in so many words.
KEEP IN MIND: Everything below could change in the next few weeks/months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glacier National Park makes the rules regarding checking in.
rec.gov doesn't have a say on the issue of check-in procedures.

Make absolutely certain that you include the license number of the car(s) you will be parking overnight, or longer on your permit.
Both drivers should have their own copy.
Make copies of your backcountry permit--on phone and paper if you can.
Law Enforcement Rangers get all the license numbers of backcountry campers. So when they see your car parked at the trailhead, they won't cite you.
She also said it might not hurt to leave a note in the window indicating you have a BC permit.

I asked about people like me who may come in at a very early hour for whatever reason.

A LEO might think I had been parked there overnight. She had no firm official answer.
She said I'd probably be ok if I left a note saying where I was and expected return time.
Something we all should do anyway, but I rarely do since sometimes I have no clue where I'm going.
So that's what I'll do--leave a note.

Not much info, but I just get the feeling nobody in the park service knows exactly how this limited entry system is going to work.
And of course I understand. Nobody knows. A lot of issues will be dealt with on a sort of ad hoc basis.

I hope they have it figured out soon because when I got to Lake McDonald yesterday, the parking lot was FULL, and people driving around.

pete :wink:

Very few people in Apgar. Lake McDonald Lodge was full of cars.
I'm thinking the "perfect day" got a lot of bikers coming to the park. Park at the lodge and bike to Avalanche Creek and beyond.

Image
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

George Carlin

sbosecker
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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by sbosecker »

Does anyone have information on how one accesses the Backcountry Office at Apgar - in an attempt to get a walkup backcountry permit - without an Entry Ticket? Is that possible?

While it is certainly an advantage to get at the backcountry office early enough to avoid being challanged at the west gate (6 am or earlier?) what if you get there after that time?

Scott

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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by PeteE »

sbosecker wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:57 am
Does anyone have information on how one accesses the Backcountry Office at Apgar - in an attempt to get a walkup backcountry permit - without an Entry Ticket? Is that possible?

While it is certainly an advantage to get at the backcountry office early enough to avoid being challanged at the west gate (6 am or earlier?) what if you get there after that time?

Scott
Good question. I'm headed out there shortly. I'll go by the BC Office and ask them.
Later
pete :wink:
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

George Carlin

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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by PeteE »

Scott:
I asked that question at the BC Office this afternoon.
You will need a "valid ticket" to enter the West Gate or St Mary Gate or Camas Rd entrances after 0600.
So you will need to purchase a ticket before arriving at the gate. Tickets cannot be purchased at the gate.
You'll be turned away and told to go to rec.gov
ALL ticket purchases are done through rec.gov
Sucks but there it is. She advised getting a ticket earlier rather than later if you know your dates.

Those of you who have a car or more than one car....if you are a backpacker.
Make absolutely certain you enter the car license numbers on your permit.
Drivers of your cars should have a copy of your permit(phone pic)
LEO gets a copy of all the license numbers associated with a permit. When they run the number of your parked vehicle, if you're on the permit you'll be good. If your car is NOT parked at the trailhead, make sure you tell them at the time they issue your permit.


pete :wink:
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

George Carlin

sbosecker
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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by sbosecker »

PeteE wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:11 pm
Scott:
I asked that question at the BC Office this afternoon.
You will need a "valid ticket" to enter the West Gate or St Mary Gate or Camas Rd entrances after 0600.
So you will need to purchase a ticket before arriving at the gate. Tickets cannot be purchased at the gate.
You'll be turned away and told to go to rec.gov
ALL ticket purchases are done through rec.gov
Sucks but there it is. She advised getting a ticket earlier rather than later if you know your dates.

Those of you who have a car or more than one car....if you are a backpacker.
Make absolutely certain you enter the car license numbers on your permit.
Drivers of your cars should have a copy of your permit(phone pic)
LEO gets a copy of all the license numbers associated with a permit. When they run the number of your parked vehicle, if you're on the permit you'll be good. If your car is NOT parked at the trailhead, make sure you tell them at the time they issue your permit.


pete :wink:
Pete,

Thanks for asking the BC folks.

It wasn't the $2 fee, it was taking a Valid Ticket just to go to the backcountry office and reducing the number of Tickets available for someone wanting to visit that day.

I'm probably not understanding something ...again. HA!

Thanks again.

Best regards,

Scott

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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by zozeppelin »

Thanks for the recon Pete!

According to this article, demand is much larger than supply, but that should be improving as they'll be releasing more tickets with the anticipated opening of GTTSR on July 1st.

https://flatheadbeacon.com/2021/05/06/d ... ted-entry/

They are planning on 4,600 daily tickets, 80% available in 60 days in advance, 20% from 2 days in. The website was averaging 10,000 visitors each morning trying to make reservations.

From Glacier Stats (https://irma.nps.gov/STATS/SSRSReports/ ... ?Park=GLAC)

The 2019 July average was 2270 from the east and 4820 from the west per day, for a total of 7090 (50% more than they plan on releasing).

Now, as I understand it, permits are good for a week, so they are effectively allowing for 32,200 (7*4600) vehicles per day plus people with existing reservations for campgrounds and hotels.

An unintended consequence might be cutting down on the biker gangs, as presumably they're require 1 permit per bike?

It seems like the 7 day window is going to kill any control they have. It will be interesting to see if they implement the measures for restricting overnight parking. Also presumably, by the time it becomes obvious they are going to have a problem, it'll be too late to fix it as 80% of the tickets have already been purchased.

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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by wjlapier »

Something I don’t see on the park website. I’m awaiting a reply from the park.

Do Blackfeet tribal members still have access to the park free of charge? Do they need a ticket to enter?

In the past all I had to do was show my tribal ID and they let me and my family in.

al_in_al
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Re: Ticketed Entry Issue

Post by al_in_al »

wjlapier wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:16 am
Something I don’t see on the park website. I’m awaiting a reply from the park.

Do Blackfeet tribal members still have access to the park free of charge? Do they need a ticket to enter?

In the past all I had to do was show my tribal ID and they let me and my family in.
I thought it used to say you didn't need a ticket on the main ticket info page, but I'm not seeing it right now. The press release from March 31 says "Landowners with property within the GTSR corridor and affiliated tribal members are also not required to have a GTSR entry reservation ticket."

https://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/news/media21-5.htm

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